Silent debate

We are aware that ‘experiences’ vary greatly; therefore one route cannot suffice – though ‘transliminal’ is an innovative notion and one that many can relate to; thanks. For me, a spiritual (personal) dimension appears unavoidable.

Maybe mostly?! Sometimes that feeling can be overwhelming especially if on your own.

I agree with it being complicated and that religious traditions may offer a way for some and not for others.

Personally, I don’t believe religious traditions should be seen as the only way in and out. Problems may arise from the person’s previous perception of an almighty force (God) and may hinder the person’s hunger for a greater understanding.

This is complicated! I think the problems arise when a particular religion claims to be the only way to do this. The religious traditions are sources of great wisdom in thought and practice which can be accessible to people who may not agree with them entirely.

For those that religious view resonates with but that’s not the answer for everyone. I agree “they may do so”.

Under supervision (ideally). They may do so. Problem if a group has a majority who do not share their professed belief. Yes – but the map is not the landscape! Use the tradition appropriate to who you are and have some idea of the purpose.

Religion is not the only way to do this.

Well yes, it is! but doesn’t mean it is a reason to steer clear. It is irrational to stand under a torrent of rain with shorts and t shirt – but in giving yourself face up and feeling each splash and trickle and watching it run down your body could be described as a spiritual moment! To stay soaked through and shiver all day and catch “your death of cold” seems crazier!

Spirituality is irrational and illogical. This is but one view. There are opposing views of spirituality.

Life is irrational and illogical… Staying clear of it is boring! (If not actually harmful.) It’s all about balance. We all need a little irrationality to stop us turning into machines. Spirituality is one form of irrationality.

If you have the gift, however you got it, then not to use it is dangerous. Much of life and living is equally irrational and illogical with LESS explanation. Can we choose the reality we live in? I doubt it.

I agree it is a personal preference and their perspective of spirituality.

Providing the spirituality doesn’t have a detrimental effect on anyone else or the individual then it is not to be dismissed by another individual.

It can be, but many reasonable and logical people value their spirituality too, and arguably their lives are enriched by this.

It’s down to the individual what their opinion is. Each to their own.

It is very individual and not up to anyone else to suggest otherwise.

Religious traditions: as humans we occupy a ‘space’ of ‘push or pull’ or ‘order or chaos’ or ‘freedom or restriction’. Relationships – for example – respond well to ‘boundaries’ very often. We need both ‘space or freedom’ and ‘restrictions or boundaries’. Humans appear to require a balance in ‘all’ not only in order to function effectively but also in order to be able to ‘comprehend’; what is ‘joy’ without knowing ‘grief’?

Yes, if they succeed. I’d want to explore whether the tradition was intended to be followed in such a way that causes this outcome.

Religious traditions are harmful WHEN they try to limit and control people’s spiritual beliefs and experiences. When they support those beliefs and experiences, they are very beneficial.

Perhaps religions are at their best when they are in true dialogue with each other, true to their own roots, but genuinely open to what they may have to learn from the other.

This unfortunately seems to be the case in many but not all instances. If religion could be an expression of the true intent behind their creation and not exploited, it could be very different and is in some instances.

Education, brainwashing at times too. Freedom has its chains of responsibility to others, limit and control here is reasonable.

Sometimes true. But the danger is mixing politics with religious bureaucracy. Certain limits, for example, the Ten Commandments seem to be like a good idea.

In a way as some people may be very swayed by others’ ideas and beliefs and take these on as their own or replace their own beliefs, feeling that they have no value when they do. Brainwashing to a certain extent.

In one aspect yes but can also provide a sense of security and belonging.

The religious framework can help some people understand their experiences and give context but not everyone will want or need that.

What we ‘know’ determines what we define. Our values and belief systems inform us, all of us. We know ‘a thing’ by comparing e.g., materialism and secular living experiences provide us with insight as to how to ‘comprehend’ both ‘holy’ and ‘sacred’ (or not).

The words holy and sacred are synonymous with organised religion and tradition to me.

Holy or sacred – the presence of something or existence of something outside of the human world. enables a fresh perspective. In Christian terms, sinless, unbroken (perhaps). Something outside of “normal” consensus experience?

Roots of both words are meaning, DIFFERENT. Something holy is “of the light” in certain cases set aside. Rituals to enable shared acknowledgement of truth.

The experience someone has in that place.

It comes down to personal perspectives. Each person will have a different definition of holy or sacred.

I would agree but have no belief in anything being holy or sacred, personally.

A holy place has been described as somewhere where the veil between heaven and earth is very thin, so something is holy when it can open us to what is beyond.

I connect “holy” and “sacred” with religion. Both words to me mean something precious and spiritual.

‘Sectioning’ historical figures and saints, to ‘section’ a person is commonly understood (in present time) as a reference to ‘removing a person’s liberty’ via the power of the Mental Health Act. This Mental Health Act, which did not exist in previous times, most likely when these historical figures and saints (as we now acknowledge them) were alive. Therefore, since cultural norms vary both historically and culturally, I would say that this assertion is fundamentally untenable.

Yes, but unlikely due to not enough capacity as it is without a vast influx of heavenly refugees, we don’t even look after our own human refugees!

Not necessarily, sectioning is not something that is taken lightly, it incorporates a lot of wider aspects. I agree that they may receive support from services if they willingly accepted or warranted it.

Almost definitely, sanity is questioned at every opportunity when someone really believes they are in touch with a greater understanding if it isn’t backed by facts.

I think it’s good to try to get beyond the way their followers try to make them look good to the real human being underneath, just as complex and complicated as any of us. I’m sure many of them would have been receiving support from mental health services – but that doesn’t take anything away from the power or importance of their message.

What is it that makes people question someone’s beliefs.

I don’t think they would necessarily be sectioned; each person would be assessed as an individual.

This ‘threshold’ may be transgressed either willingly or unwillingly; ‘knowingly’ or indeed ‘unknowingly’. For me, these issues (unwillingly or unknowingly) are the challenge. How do I know? How can I determine where, precisely, I am?

Knowing that the threshold is there is one of the greatest benefits because it allows us to know that we are not alone in the pain that we suffer and that just beyond that threshold is God and His guidance.

Being able to gain perspective in a world that deals exclusively in black and white, as a majority.

I think it’s a kind of a more complete experience of the wholeness of life and an ability to be nourished and enlightened by that. There is so much more to our existence than meets the eye and we are only half alive if we don’t take some of that in.

Experiencing inner peace and oneness. A break from the chaos of life. Being able to stay grounded is important or the benets may not be so.

A sense one’s place and unimportance as an ego. If you have this gift, use it as a blessing or it will be a curse. An ability to see many points of view – in the world not of it. A transliminal and everyday existence….until you cross by the threshold of death.

Understanding, challenging “set” ideas, beliefs and opening minds.

A different insight, perspective, experience paves the way for new emotions.

Crossing the threshold could open you up to a new way of experiencing your life and the world.